Re: (Tokai Les Paul) Humbucker?

Beitrag von hans-juergen vom Januar 08. 2006 um 14:08:31:

Als Antwort zu: Re: (Tokai Les Paul) Humbucker? geschrieben von hans-juergen am Januar 08. 2006 um 10:52:35:

Hmm, da es sich anscheinend um ein größeres Problem beim Tokaiforum handelt (immer noch nicht wieder da), hier der Einfachheit halber mal die besagte Zusammenfassung auf Englisch sowie die Links zu den einzelnen Samples.

Übrigens gibt's zum Ausgangsthema noch zu sagen, daß ich auch erst mal die originalen Tokai-Humbucker ausprobieren würde, da Hoss (war doch seine Tokai, oder?) eher auf WCR Crossroads und den Warren Haynes Hals-Humbucker-Sound steht. Jedenfalls hat er die in seine Gibson eingebaut und auch ein paar Samples im Tokaiforum gepostet. Der Unterschied zu dem von mir getesteten '57 PAF-Modell von 1984 dürfte u.a. in der Kappe liegen, die einen Teil des Sounds ausmacht.

Kompletter Original-Thread im Tokai-Forum

"PART VII: Winners and losers...

I'm afraid I can't answer that question, because I don't see any losers here, only pickups that might sound better in one specific guitar than in another. Since it was my original intent to match the available pickups to the acoustic sound of my LS120, I'm happy with this result anyhow.

The Super Distortion clone certainly is the pickup with the highest "balls to the walls" ratio of all participants, most of the time it sounds as if it has a Marshall stack built in there while the others have to deal with their "combo sound". Actually I like that a lot, because this guitar has got balls, too... ;) Furthermore it transports the nasal honk (e.g. on "Brown Sugar") very well, so it would be almost perfect if I wouldn't like to play cleaner stuff like Police now and then or something with more dynamics, i.e. adding distortion during a song only by hitting the strings harder which the guitar can easily do. In that situation you have to work harder with such a pickup (= be more cautious, fumble with the knobs a lot), or simply switch to a rhythm and/or crunch channel if you have one in your amp.

That raises the question what aspects of a pickup sound are most important to you. Generally I would listen to the tone first, i.e. its basic frequency characteristics, then the dynamics, and then the rest like rich harmonic overtones when playing chords with 3rd or 6th intervals that might even grow when sustaining (= "bloom"), or how easy/hard it is to play pinch harmonics on the wound strings. The reason why I rank these properties this way is that I know there isn't much left of dynamics and bloom when the band starts to play. In other words these secondary features in my opinion are more important in a couch potatoe or studio session situation. ;) Or more seriously: don't decide on a pickup simply by playing it at bedroom level on your own if you plan to use it in a band context, too.

I was surprised that both pickups with 11-12 kOhm were able to match the output of the neck P-94 quite well when adjusting them lower than usual (about 1mm for the Super Distortion clone). This might also be caused by the Alnico V bar magnets of the P-94, so it isn't a typical single coil neck pickup. Like mentioned before I like it very much, because it comes closer to the deep, warm, clear and honky acoustic sound of the LS120 than any other pickup I've tested yet. It seems that almost all bridge humbuckers have problems to deliver a similar bass part compared to the P-94 in the neck. Besides their placement at the bridge this might also be caused by their magnets, as weaker ones will lose even more punch vs. stronger ones. By the way, I'm not sure if the SD clone has ceramic magnets, because it seems to use a special construction anyhow.

I don't know which magnets Tokai or rather Gotoh/Keiyo used in their pickups, but both sounded thinner on the wound strings than the SD clone or the DiMarzio PAF to me, so it might be Alnico II for the '57 PAF and something weaker than Alnico V for the new MK2, as it has a rather high resistance which would probably sound too muffled with Alnico II. But this is only a guess, maybe someone can confirm or correct this some day.

The 1984 Tokai '57 PAF has a quite unique sound that isn't overly bright on itself (e.g. with lots of treble). But there's a certain canny component in it which you probably have to love or hate depending on your preferences and the guitar you use it in. This kind of "hollow twang" enhances sharp attacks and might be caused by its cover and that it isn't wax potted, as far as I know. It isn't very dynamic either, but there are enough mids left to install this pickup in darker sounding guitars that could use a bit of that Tele twang on their sound. So I'm quite sure the set will sound fine in my Luxor ES copy that needs new humbuckers, too.

The new MK2 by Keiyo sounds more open to me than the Gotoh with a more "natural" voice which you could also call "standard". And of course it's louder, but at the same time less dynamic again than e.g. the DiMarzio PAF. The set with the 7.5 kOhm neck pickup is well balanced (tested it in the Love Rock II back then), so you should be able to easily dial them in without the bridge overpowering the neck pickup. It seems that everybody is looking for the perfect "10k hot bridge PAF" at the moment (e.g. have a look at the Seymour Duncan forum...), and the MK2 would be one to consider in my opinion if you don't adjust it too close to the strings.

The AGS model was a bit harder to figure out, it had good and bad sides at the same time. What I didn't like was the pronounced string separation that made single notes and/or strings stick out of a chord or a phrase too much lacking the typical humbucker smoothness then. But this is probably caused by the adjustment of the polepieces (see above) which should rather be set flat with the cover. I didn't have enough time to test it that way, but I'm quite sure it will benefit from such a setting, because there's a nice characteristic tone in the background that will probably come through then, i.e. you should try to ignore the pronounced string separation when listing to the samples. By the way, I have no idea which of the three big names that togps mentioned produces this pickup, but because of its American threads it should be either Seymour Duncan (those "Designed by" thingies?), DiMarzio or Gibson.

The old DiMarzio PAF is one of my favorites in this comparison, maybe you can hear that in my playing, too. Although it is the "weakest" model with only 7.5 kOhm, it doesn't sound like that to me when properly adjusted. I guess I'm just an All-NiCo-V guy, so don't gimme no sweet Alnico II shit, I'll tell ya... ;) I like how it combines great dynamics, creamy tone (and look) and sweet bite without sounding harsh at the same time. Probably it sounds great with covers, too, like some of the old Tokai LS120s had them installed originally, or the LS150 with a Super Distortion at the bridge and a PAF at the neck. Nuff said...

Last but not least the Gibson P-94 is a nice surprise each time I install it in the bridge position, because it also sounds smooth and creamy with lots of harmonic overtones, but clearer than the humbuckers which pays off especially in the middle position that sounds a lot like original P-90 soapbars then (think of or rather listen to Les Dudek for example). I would even prefer having the bridge model more beef = windings to it, but this also depends on the amp and speaker of course. Remember, I chose these bedroom level settings for a common ground to test the differences, not to dial in the most pleasing sound for each pickup. For example I took this guitar to my band rehearsal yesterday, and it was a whole lotta fun cranking my Fender Bassman head and Marshall cab with some AC/DC "Riff-Raff" jamming.

So I hope this comparison was of some use to you, and maybe I'll add another humbucker if I get it after Christmas, or record my LS60 with the Gibson Shaw PAFs then. If you have other suggestions, just go ahead, but I'll be away from the computer over Christmas and cannot answer them."

Part I: Intro
Gibson P-94 neck, El Diablo
middle position
Super Distortion clone bridge, chords
Super Distortion clone bridge, bass notes
Super Distortion clone bridge, blues phrase, vol. at 6

Part II: Tokai PAF-Vintage MK2
Gibson P-94 neck, Cheap Sunglasses
middle position
Tokai PAF-Vintage MK2 bridge, chords
Tokai PAF-Vintage MK2 bridge, bass notes
Tokai PAF-Vintage MK2 bridge, blues phrase, vol. at 6

PART III: AGS TRH1B
middle position
AGS TRH1B, chords
AGS TRH1B, bass notes
AGS TRH1B, blues phrase, vol. at 6

PART IV: Tokai '57 PAF model
middle position
Tokai '57 PAF, chords
Tokai '57 PAF, bass notes
Tokai '57 PAF, blues phrase, vol. at 6

PART V: DiMarzio PAF
middle position
DiMarzio PAF, chords
DiMarzio PAF, bass notes
DiMarzio PAF, blues phrase, vol. at 6

PART VI: Gibson P-94 bridge
middle position
Gibson P-94 bridge, chords
Gibson P-94 bridge, bass notes
Gibson P-94 bridge, blues phrase, vol. at 6

PART VIII: Not competing... ;)
Gibson Shaw PAF neck, El Diablo
Gibson Shaw PAF neck, Cheap Sunglasses
Gibson Shaw PAFs, middle position
Gibson Shaw PAF bridge, chords
Gibson Shaw PAF bridge, bass notes
Gibson Shaw PAF bridge, blues phrase, vol. at 6

verfasste Antworten:

Dieser Beitrag ist älter als 3 Monate und kann nicht mehr beantwortet werden.